Carla felt the pain in Joshua's eyes as he said those words to her. She felt like he was referring to himself, to how he felt when he was defeated eight years ago.

"So even if you don't want to, you just have to accept defeat. And it's not a good feeling. It will never be a good feeling," Joshua continued. He looked down again.

"How do you know when to stop?"

Joshua looked back to Carla.

"How do you know you have to choose defeat?"

"Because it's just what it was ...